Curse

gabrial heart · Dec 19, 2006, 05:13 PM // 17:13

I'm not a negative person, but I'm really starting to get the feeling of decline for gw. I'm not sure if it's just repeatativeness or what but a few things come to mind.

- I think the random chest idea was a bad one, judging by the various polls I'm not alone.

- I think DOA is a poor piece of end-game content and judging by the threads, again I'm not alone there either. It really didn't help that it wasn't complete in the release of NF.

- I think the lack of storage upgrades is also poor and judging by the overwhelming cry for storage now, again I'm not alone. The *hat* storage will be nice and though i don't know exacly what we will be getting, if it's just *hats* I'm going to be sadly dissapointed. Limited storage has been a thorn for a very long time and for the first time i actually have a mule just so i can switch off hero runes, insignias and weapons. The intro of these features has proven to scream MORE STORAGE.

- HA is suffering badly right now IMO, it's turned into heroway and for me is mostly annoying to even bother with anymore. The intro of heros was very cool, but having them in pvp enviroments is sadly become the norm, even some gvg matches have become heroways.

- I unfortuantely think that the level cap is going to do GW in, along with the lack of elite weapons, armor and skills have everyone almost at a standstill. There is starting to become less and less to shoot for and i think something really needs to change or chapter 4 will be a poor seller.

Obviously these are my opinions, but they are not unjustified as i read through the forums and hear much of these issues over and over again. Will the game survive to see chapter 5? I'm really not as sure as i once was...

Blackest Rose · Dec 19, 2006, 05:50 PM // 17:50

I'm a positive and negative critic of the game (read some of my posts and you'll see), but what I'm seeing being promised is actually giving me more hope that GW will go on for quite a while.

Anet are addressing long standing requests such as reconnects, LFG improvements - remember observer mode for PVP was well up there in the request list until we got it. They're just not addressing them on the timescale that the user community are demanding - which is realistic and understandable.

All this goes to improve the core elements of the game and not just bundled with the chapter content.

Hey chests are a lucky bag - I don't have a problem with that.

Storage - yep with you on that one - very frustrating to switch toons every 2 mins to store stuff on mules.

DOA - nice challenge - don't have a problem with that.

HA - can't comment - don't PVP

Level cap - no problem for me

My personal list of stuff which I would really really want is down to just 2 items - Improved trade and more storage (once AI is fixed).
With all the other stuff they're enhancing in the game I'm willing to cut them some slack here.

With all my constructive critisism I have to admit - Anet is really trying to address long standing requests and isn't ignoring them.

Skyy High · Dec 19, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

- The randomized chests was an economic hit to chest runners alone; to everyone else, it's a boon. The main reason you see whining about it on the forums is because most well-off players also frequent forums, while most casual players don't.

- We wanted raids, we got raids. I honestly don't get people who think SF was just such a damn good "elite" area. It's not elite, it's pretty much the same difficulty as the hardest areas of the southern shiverpeaks, save the flame djinns and the final boss. UW and FoW are also not what players are clamoring for; no one goes in there to quest, they go in there to farm. ANet finally made an elite area that's nigh-impossible to farm, where the quests are what matter, and of course people don't like it, because there is no easy way to get Tormented weapons except to do the quests over and over again.

- They're just getting to reconnects and a party search system, two of the things on the very short list that we've been clamoring for since day 1. This shows that they actually are listening to us, and there is certainly hope in the future for the other things we're asking for. The suggestion of hat storage bodes very well for this.

- I just went into HA yesterday as heroway for the first time in literally months. The old 8 man HA was stale and gimmicky; at least now we have the option of jumping in and just having fun in a tournament setting with a build we like. Also, not one of the teams I faced had more than 3 heros, so it's not really a complete loss to heroway, and the teams with real players tend to kick the hero teams' arses anyway.

- The level cap is one of the founding principles of GW. You raise that, the only thing it does is makes xp worth something for a few days, before everyone is back to max level. As-is, the devs are putting things in the game that function like levels, but don't actually affect the game balance except in a few areas. I'm talking about Lightbringer points. You gain levels in that, and you become both more resilient and more powerful in certain areas of the game. That's EXACTLY like raising the level cap for particular parts of the game, but what are people doing? They're whining about LB discrimination.

Elite weapons - They just added the FoW of weapons, the Tormented weapons. See how many people are whining about the price of them. People don't want expensive weapons...they want all the shiniest stuff, cheap.

Elite armor - There are a LOT of expensive armor sets in this game. FoW and something along the lines of 10 ascended armors for each profession. Plenty of choice there, I think.

Elite skills - Not only do they add more elite skills every game, they're now adding pve only skills. That's a massive can of worms they just opened, but maybe we'll get overpowered monster style skills in future campaigns.

Antheus · Dec 19, 2006, 06:03 PM // 18:03

And you are part of the problem.

You've made post #84785 about issues that are longstanding. And yet, they still haven't killed the game.

If you think this is something new, then you weren't around for beta events, when level cap, fixed items and storage were discussed into oblivion and back. And yet, none of this has impacted the game.

HA has been whiners paradise since start. And then, rank was introduced.
Chests are irrelevant.
DoA - go to ToA, and ask for UW quest group. You'll be surprised that it's easier to find a group for DoA than for UW. Remove farming from FoW/UW, and the place will be empty. That place was just as exclusive as DoA is. The only difference is, someone came up with the 55 idea. And since then, UW is a solo affair. Want to quest, get a guild. Same for DoA. And if the place is too hard for you, you're not good enough. Unrewarding, perhaps. But too hard? No.
Level cap - dead horse is begging me to stop beating it
Storage - dead horse's second cousin twice removed asks to stop beating him as well

Count the number of people who raise this stuff on forums. You'll find out it's the same people over and over.

You've just made another completely pointless whine over nothing. All that which was listed is irrelevat to success of the game. And it was proven over and over.

Cacheelma · Dec 19, 2006, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Your post seem to have some points.....until you start talking about level cap and elite weapons, where everything turns into....complete BS.

No offense.

leeky baby · Dec 19, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

ya i do see the decrease in the population, but maybe thats because its spread out over 3 chapters.. espically places like toa only has 1 distict when use to have 4/5.

Ya most of ur points are vaild although i dont want a higher level cap 20 is fine. also lack of skills wtf? theres hundreds of them...ya some are copys and total rubish but there are loads.

gabrial heart · Dec 19, 2006, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

And you are part of the problem.

You've just made another completely pointless whine over nothing. All that which was listed is irrelevat to success of the game. And it was proven over and over.

It's really not a problem and as the community expands the expectations and whining increase as well. I'm not whining about it, just pointing out that people long-standing are having continual mixed feelings about the state of the game. I'm not even offering suggestions about change! But i am noticing a decline in the general population and even more disgrunt then there used to be. I read all the beta discussions and was around for them, I love the game, but there is a growing list of issues with it that is becomming harder to deny. I also think that this digrunt isn't helping growth. Sure a-net's listening, sure they are bringing out new features, have no idea if it will help though. So many people that i know personally have left the game and most likely won't be comming back.

And it's not completely pointless, if this is a trend, then pointing it out and continue to point it out makes the game change, none of it is really pointless. Not trying to stir up dust, not trying to produce more bad feelings, just seeing the responses and getting a feeling for the opinion, it's hardly a bad thing. If nothing else, your post has contributed to this lack of desire to be envolved, if it feels pointless then we are all out an otherwise good time.

Phaern Majes · Dec 19, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackest Rose

Improved trade and more storage

This has bugged me for sometime, how does the trade need improved? Are you talking about an auction house? Or possible a way to force players to spam the trade channel. Just saying improved trade is so....vague. Personally I'd be all for either of the 2 I just stated, but for some reason I don't think thats what you meant.

gabrial heart · Dec 19, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

Your post seem to have some points.....until you start talking about level cap and elite weapons, where everything turns into....complete BS.

No offense.

None taken, it's just a lot of what i've been hearing lately.

Fentarez · Dec 19, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

I like the random chests, prevents scams and keeps everything even, everybody got the same chance.
I don't know what to think about DoA, it's a little much time-wise, but I do appreciate that they gave us something to do after Abbadon.
Storage needs to be expanded, not in another tab, but more like ten times more space for your items, now storage is more like a step between char and mule.
HA, can't comment on that, don't do much PvP.
I think I know what you mean by cap and weapons, that the highest stats come quite early in the game, but that's just GW, if they would add 15-24 swords suddenly it would completely destroy all other weapons + it's more skill based like this.
Skin are just looks you, a 15^50 collectors sword is better then a 14^50 crystalline, but still is worth much less. It's the skins you shoot for, if that's what you mean.

Blackest Rose · Dec 19, 2006, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaern Majes

This has bugged me for sometime, how does the trade need improved? Are you talking about an auction house? Or possible a way to force players to spam the trade channel. Just saying improved trade is so....vague. Personally I'd be all for either of the 2 I just stated, but for some reason I don't think thats what you meant.

Well that's part of the problem - all we're told by Anet is that they're working on trade improvements and it's not an auction house.
We have no idea what that means.

I gave up trying to sell stuff - I found that I was spending so much time repeatedly changing districts and then advertising what I had in the trade channel that I wasn't playing the game anymore.

All I know is selling is a real pain in this game, I'm not prepared to spend hours spamming the trade channel in different towns and districts to try and find a buyer. Trading is broken for me.

Phaern Majes · Dec 19, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackest Rose

Well that's part of the problem - all we're told by Anet is that they're working on trade improvements and it's not an auction house.
We have no idea what that means.

I gave up trying to sell stuff - I found that I was spending so much time repeatedly changing districts and then advertising what I had in the trade channel that I wasn't playing the game anymore.

All I know is selling is a real pain in this game, I'm not prepared to spend hours spamming the trade channel in different towns and districts to try and find a buyer. Trading is broken for me.

Aye, I get ya now. And know just what ya mean (maybe a tad redundant), though I haven't given up. I just get frustrated sometimes. They could always, do FFXI where players can set prices to things in their inventory... but I suppose thats not original, and people hate it when someone suggests using things from other games

.

Maybe it will be similar to an auction house, where you can post that you have the item without a price. Then people who look can see everyone who has that item and message the person to work out a price. Though if they go that far they might as well make it an auction house. Meh I hate speculating on the possibilities as it never pans out to what I think. I just don't see how they could improve trade chat

gabrial heart · Dec 19, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeky baby

ya i do see the decrease in the population, but maybe thats because its spread out over 3 chapters.. espically places like toa only has 1 distict when use to have 4/5.

Ya most of ur points are vaild although i dont want a higher level cap 20 is fine. also lack of skills wtf? theres hundreds of them...ya some are copys and total rubish but there are loads.

I think a lot of elite skills talk is about lb gaze and the increable gimped lb signet. This talk being mostly pve talk.

The level cap has been talked about a lot and is a reason why a lot of people either stop playing or play the preview stuff and don't go to buy the game. Many games invent was to achieve and i think anets commited to that trend as well, but right now it's a little behind.

Forums are now and have been the pulse for decisions in game content, so far it's been a pretty healthy discusion and i'm glad to hear good talk

Former Ruling · Dec 19, 2006, 06:49 PM // 18:49

1) How can you complain about randomized chests....They were promoted as being random before, now they truly are...It is actually a blessing to some people including me. All It really hurts is the group runners that would make 1 person waste a key on the chest to see...and that was just a situation that fostered abuse.

2) You wrongly assumed that "end-game content" meant another FoW/UW or Urgoz/Deep reskinned and rehashed? The latter parts of DoA are actually the closed thing we have to a Raid in GW - which I think the game needed 1-2 of on the PvE side. You also got to stop thinking that his greens are the goal of DoA...they aren't. They are merely there because ever since Factions Anet has snuck greens on about everything they can fit them on and Mallyx is no exception.

3) In every game I ever played in this genre people have cryed for more storage in some sense or another (based on that games storage features).

4) HA wasn't hot for creative thinking before Heros. If anything they have just gave newer players a way to integrate into the roster of HA without the limitations of Rank Discrimation (can't get in a group if you arent ranked, cant get ranked unless your in a group. random unranked pugs get wiped by everything and just convince the person to give up). The "Elitest"s of HA have always QQ'ed about what ever they could - the addition of heros just gave them another excuse.

5) The lack of such things to a degree have kept GW going through some pretty bad decisions. PvE is admittedly weak in relation to the amount of time and "stuff" you put into a WoW or Everquest character for example. This isn't a curse though since GW market's itself as a game where you don't have to worry about huge level gaps and unbalanced equipment later in the game. They are trying to add more and more each chapter to have clear goals in pve if thats your focus, but if they were going to market this as a true MMO type experience they'd fail miserably...

--------------------------------------

I love how you started the thread sounding like you were going to make a valid point, then totally drove off course with claims and statements so easy to disprove and counter. I agree there are things in Guild Wars I don't like and everyone can see that theres less exciting interest in the game with each chapter - thats understandable on a certain level, not many games in this genre last very long in the spotlight and Guild Wars started alittle trend in its design its only a matter of time before someone picks up on what they did right and outclasses them.

Anyway, you should learn that forums are a horrible place to judge how a game is doing. Forums usually make good homes for the more addicted or elitest players of the game. And its this crowd (me included I guess) that like to point out all the wrong in the game and what they think should change. You have to note though that to an extent these rants are a good outlook on the game really when you consider these people ranting are the very ones that log multiple hours a day in on the game and spend so much of their free time on forums dedicated to said game...something that would not happen if their interests laid elsewhere.

*I'll probably edit this post later to make my points clearer, but I had a short time to write this*

Shadis · Dec 19, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

I don't have that feeling. I think the game is getting better, but there are some issues that constantly bother me. For example, we were told LONG ago that alternative access methods to The Deep and Urgoz's Warren were being looked at.

Where are they? What is going on there? Why don't they just put the NPC's back in Kaineng Center they had for that event and be done with it?

It's the "Let's stop talking about it and hope they forget" sense I get from them regarding things like the alternate access methods for The Deep and Urgoz's. They tend to do that often...

...To be fair though, more often than not, they take that path then remind us of what was promised in an update out of the blue (See: Reconnects, Improved Party System) so we can't really lose too much hope in them.

Phaern Majes · Dec 19, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Eh, I think with Urgoz and the Deep, its more that they are looking for a way, that doesn't completely undermine the meaning of owning the towns. I think they want to keep the primary way of getting there a ferry by the guild, maybe put a statue in a hard to reach place, that if you kneel at and pay the toll of 1k....

My guild owns no towns, and I personally think it would be a shame to lose that system. I agree there needs to be an alternate way. But alternate doesn't mean change it altogether, it just means offer another path. And if they want to offer another path without ruining the game for those guilds that wasted alot of time earning that faction, they need to make that alternate path somewhat hard to attain.

Antheus · Dec 19, 2006, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadis

...To be fair though, more often than not, they take that path then remind us of what was promised in an update out of the blue (See: Reconnects, Improved Party System) so we can't really lose too much hope in them.

They didn't matter, simple as that.

With missions lasting between 15 and 45 minutes, the disconnects weren't a problem.

Grouping wasn't a problem due to high population concentration.

But as there are now areas that take 1.5 hours at minimum to complete, and the number of quests rising almost exponentially, these features started to become necessary.

This is why they are only now being implemented. You need to differentiate between what is essential, and what is optional. Disconnects in particular became an issue with DoA. Losing a single member in Urgoz or Deep didn't kill the group. It does kill DoA groups. Quests were always a henchie affair. So grouping wasn't necessary, and those that did want to group, used guilds.

With introduction of Masters difficulty quests in areas that are unfavorable to henchies (gaze, LB) this became an obstacle.

Alternate access to Factions elites? They are looking into it. But adding unrestricted access to them is a slap in the face to those guilds that FF 24/7 just to hold a city. Don't ever even hint at simply disregarding them: there's hundreds, if not thousands of players to whom this is *the* goal. It may seem lame to many (it does to me), but who is everyone to judge what everyone enjoys.

For the same reason, increase in storage isn't required. Some could use it, but it's not required and doesn't prevent anyone from playing to full extent.

Xunlai was intended and designed only and only as means of transferring items between characters. Not as a bank deposit box. The materials and hats storage will be a very welcome addition on top of this concept.

Blackest Rose · Dec 19, 2006, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaern Majes

They could always, do FFXI where players can set prices to things in their inventory... but I suppose thats not original, and people hate it when someone suggests using things from other games

.

I really hope that they're shooting for functionality and not dismissing improvements because they've been done before.

I don't believe Anet could be that stupid, hmmmm.... but they did just go and invent a new storage mechanism "*just for hats*" now didn't they.... when they have 2 other storage mechanisms already - inventory and vault/materials vault and people screaming for more generic storage.

Maybe I better wait and see...

It's perfectly ok to pick concepts which are proven to work from other games - I mean that's how we make progress after all, build upon good things and make them great.

Riotgear · Dec 19, 2006, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

- HA is suffering badly right now IMO, it's turned into heroway and for me is mostly annoying to even bother with anymore. The intro of heros was very cool, but having them in pvp enviroments is sadly become the norm, even some gvg matches have become heroways.

The moment heroway gets killed, complaining about rank discrimination resumes. Former Ruling said it well, but I think being able to beat heroway is a better test of skill than "rank 5" ever was.

Scutilla · Dec 19, 2006, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Skyy High, you just shut down most of the major complaints beautifully. I applaud your post.